tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3208248179046825763.post6159417549838073026..comments2023-11-03T08:08:16.593-05:00Comments on GrabBag<T>: Converting tests to specs is a bad ideaJimmy Bogardhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17386366910219679015noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3208248179046825763.post-46745923293648241422008-02-18T12:17:00.000-06:002008-02-18T12:17:00.000-06:00Really good post, I'd definitely be interested in ...Really good post, I'd definitely be interested in hearing more on the topic and how to use BDD at lower levels because thats one area that confuses me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3208248179046825763.post-51711380383114036672008-01-17T08:36:00.000-06:002008-01-17T08:36:00.000-06:00Not sure I have enlightenment to offer; we're real...Not sure I have enlightenment to offer; we're really coming at this as a community and it's exciting to see posts like this. I do not speak from a position of authority as my BDD career only goes about 800 specs deep at this point.<BR/><BR/>And I don't totally disagree with you. It's really not a matter of Jimmy vs. Dave and who's right, it's more about producing a dialog from which a deeper understanding emerges, so I hope you'll take my comment in that spirit!<BR/><BR/>That said, I did port tests to specs. I see the value there. I will promise to get a post that references yours and maybe supplies a subtle counter argument before week's end.Alice Blisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08836600637606274136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3208248179046825763.post-65612472368769520992008-01-16T22:45:00.000-06:002008-01-16T22:45:00.000-06:00@DaveI'm really talking about the practice I've se...@Dave<BR/><BR/>I'm really talking about the practice I've seen of converting existing tests, switching the language around, and assume it's a spec. I don't see any value messing with existing tests. They're there, leave them alone.<BR/><BR/>But my understanding of technical or implementations specs is still lacking, so please enlighten me!Jimmy Bogardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17386366910219679015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3208248179046825763.post-84125178928697438702008-01-16T22:10:00.000-06:002008-01-16T22:10:00.000-06:00I have to take issue with this post.Sometimes clas...I have to take issue with this post.<BR/><BR/>Sometimes class behaviors do specify implementation. For example, your spec there is really describing a composite behavior and should be broken down into two specifications (reduce the balance of the source, increase the balance of the target).<BR/><BR/>Not only that, but outside of model examples, what then? Could we end up with specifications on a class that is fairly technical where the implementation leaks into the language of the spec? Yes. I will try and post an example here as I realize I'm being nebulous.Alice Blisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08836600637606274136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3208248179046825763.post-10483732050457243482008-01-13T22:08:00.000-06:002008-01-13T22:08:00.000-06:00@chadGood question, to be followed by another post...@chad<BR/><BR/>Good question, to be followed by another post :)Jimmy Bogardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17386366910219679015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3208248179046825763.post-62565664540069264042008-01-12T19:54:00.000-06:002008-01-12T19:54:00.000-06:00Jimmy, the example you posted looks more like an a...Jimmy, the example you posted looks more like an acceptance test than a unit test. Is this because a.) it was just a contrived example and I'm reading too much into it or b.) BDD is not concerned with unit tests (they are a separate thing), or c.) BDD suggests we don't do unit tests at all.<BR/><BR/>When I say "unit tests", I mean things like the example you showed, plus things like: Invalid accounts, null accounts, other edge cases.<BR/><BR/>Do we just not test every case because it's a "last mile" (100% problem) with diminishing returns, or what do you recommend for some of these more mundane, nuts-and-bolts testing scenarios?Chad Myershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14930587550535317718noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3208248179046825763.post-12177872106540845482008-01-12T16:11:00.000-06:002008-01-12T16:11:00.000-06:00Jimmy, this has been a really helpful post for me ...Jimmy, this has been a really helpful post for me towards understanding BDD. Thanks! <A HREF="http://www.rayhouston.com/blog/archive/2008/01/12/what-is-bdd---part-1.aspx" REL="nofollow">Here</A> is an inspired post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com